Michael Rathebe from SowetoBTC

Thanks for inviting me over to Streaming Sats. I’m finally talking to you.

Um yeah, my name is Michael. Surname is Rathebe. Uh born and brought up here in Soweto, Meadowlands.

Um my journey into Bitcoin, it’s um it’s a little bit interesting.

I heard about it 2015 through Kipi and I joined Kipi because everybody wants to make money, you know, at higher rates.

So I try and keep with the promise of them going to grant me where at R5,000 they said roughly in 18 months that R5,000 will be R100k and wow um uh based on the people I knew around me who said they were in Kipi as well then I threw my 5,000 rands there then uh as we all know that you don’t want to eat alone so you always want to bring along along your friends.

So was like “Hey guys, I mean there’s Kipi probably we might make something out of it. Therefore then Kipi introduced Bitcoin so that people when they need to join Kipi they have to go through get some bitcoins and join Kipi.

So I was introduced in Bitcoin in that fashion.

So I started buying a little bit of Satoshi’s uh just to have a pocket that if somebody wants to join Kipi then we can register them through that using our Satoshi.

Then I did not know that this as a fraction of a bitcoin. Uh we used FN people would trade it or arbitrage it on FNB and stuff like that. I did not know but I joined my local Bitcoin. Oh, local Bitcoin. That’s why I was buying and and exchanging because it was a peer-to-peer.

So, there was nothing un to watch about it. Somebody was using FNB. I was using FNB. So, we could transact easily, send them money. They send me the Satoshi’s. I store them on local Bitcoin.

Then the government came. As usual, when something grows as a piny scheme or Ponzi, the government comes and shut it down. So they shut our hopes to a point that um I ended up saying I these things are ponzi no longer interested in it. Even though they could speak about it on radio or TV or I saw anything about Bitcoin I was like I pushed it aside.

Uh because it was part and parcel of a Ponzi for me. It was a pyramid scheme. So it’s a fraud. Then 2015 I had that local Bitcoin um wallet I yeah I didn’t concentrate much 2016 2017 do a deep dive that led me to one of the guys called Andrea Santanopoulos. Now that guy opened up a door as they say the red the rabbit hole. So I went through his stuff, read uh checked his uh YouTube video content uh got to get uh his PDF uh books, read them, try to make sense of what Bitcoin is.

Then through the process of trying you get to have an understanding. Then another one uh by the name of u safer dina mo his book his book the bitcoin standard so I bumped into that as well read it now funny enough I’m not an economist I don’t come I did not do economy at school but the way the bitcoin standard put things into perspective open up my eye in terms of trying to understand okay the nature of money is like is this technology.

Remember Andreas, he comes on the basis of technology. Whatever that he says is like um informative information in terms of the technology on its own that this thing is changing the same way as the internet has changed everything. So saferin in terms of being a professor in economics and the Austrian aspect of things he started opening up my mind into what exactly money is. So with the two I went through that rabbit hole.

So trying to make sense and understand uh what Bitcoin is. As I’m still learning today the rabbit hole is bigger. Uh no one can say I know therefore I’m done. you always get new information on a daily basis. So in a nutshell, that is me entering the Bitcoin space.

So let me see if I got this right. You first came across Bitcoin because you were involved in Kippy, which uh was a Ponzi scheme and part of this Kippy process needed you to to have Bitcoin.

Maybe they introduced it at a later time or something, but you felt that it was good for you to have a little bit of Bitcoin on hand so that you could introduce some new people if they were having some trouble with funding their account or whatever. You had this amount of money there ready to fund their Kippy accounts with the Bitcoin you had saved.

At that time, you knew nothing about Bitcoin. you were just more interested in finding like some kind of income for yourself and um were self-educating yourself in the different uh online schemes of making money. Unfortunately, it turned out to be uh something that was um very obviously a Ponzi but at that stage you were unsure. You just were happy that it was funds coming in on a regular basis.

And um it was only when the government shut down Kippy that uh your eyes like started to be opened into what’s a Ponzi, how they operate, why they illegal, and um why these regulatory bodies sometimes exist to prevent these kind of of schemes.

But be that as it may, like a few years later, um your wife was maybe interested in some other similar kind of thing and reminded you about your Bitcoin that you held in local Bitcoin.

If you wouldn’t mind just explaining a bit about what Local Bitcoin is.

Local Bitcoin uh was an exchange, a peer-to-peer exchange whereby um you know when you do things and you have an XCRO account uh you sell something online then someone was willing to buy it then local bitcoin worked at that way as it was an exchange that it connected individuals to sell products. uh I wanted some Satoshi’s that’s someone who’s selling Satoshi’s he’s using South African bank I’m using South African bank then I therefore can transfer money into his account directly while I had put an a a not an offer but a request to purchase so he’s willing he’ll put his own price as in terms of arbitrage they will put their price probably they would have I think they were using roughly between 3 to 5% and high premium on on the sets as they were selling them, then they will transfer the sets to you, but they will transfer them into your local Bitcoin.

So, you’re not going you’re not holding them uh on either of your own personal wallets. So, it was on an exchange like the current exchange that people are using now, your typical Luno Valr and Cape Crypto, you know, you can buy and store your SATs sitting there.

And another thing uh would you do you mind explaining what uh a SAT is? What’s a SAT?

Okay, now since I’ve started I’m learning uh SATs it’s a a fraction of a bitcoin. One bitcoin is divisible into 100 million units.

If you were to think about that uh it’s one in eight decimal points. So assets is defined as a fraction of a bitcoin.

Uh namely taken from the creator of bitcoin who’s Satoshi. So rather I’m calling those bits and everything bitcoin bitcoin. So people have uh decided, I don’t know who came with the name, to say let’s rather remember the creator of uh of bitcoin who is satoshi nakamoto.

So SATs it’s just a name of Satoshi so that we can keep on remembering but it’s a fraction of a bitcoin.

Okay, got it. So um in this thing you had 500 rand roughly worth of sats or satoshi’s in your Local Bitcoin account and then in just checking you had quite a process. you had someone else’s cell phone number and this person had a code sent to them.

Luckily, you could trust this person and you finally found the you got access to the bitcoin that you had bought 5 years or 6 years earlier but you were so astounded by the growth in the amount of money that you that you had made.

You bought 500 rand worth and now it’s worth a lot more like maybe a few thousand, tens of thousands, hopefully hundreds of thousands.

Maybe if we could be that that lucky. But you saw you saw it was like a very big growth. You open an account on one one of the more regular exchanges like Luno or Valr or one of those and then you connected your bank account. You sold your Satoshi’s. You spent whatever money you needed to. But that got you on this process of learning more about Bitcoin. You first came across Anton Antonopoulos.

Most of us that got involved in Bitcoin in those early years came across him because he did a lot of free information on his YouTube channel. And then people like Safedin Amos who also a professor of economics wrote uh one of the seinal books the Bitcoin standard which is what every Bitcoiner wants to achieve a world that’s run on a Bitcoin standard.

Do you mind explaining what that is? What’s your vision of what a Bitcoin standard is?

Um, a Bitcoin standard normally you would say as he was alluding to the fact of what money is and how money became what it is today. Uh, the standard will be referring us to using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. Uh, the way Satoshi uh initiated it, Bitcoin as a in a long-term as a unit of account. Uh, currently yes, we using Bitcoin as a store of value. So those three elements.

So the Bitcoin standard is when we start living in the way that uh money was supposed or money is meant to you know unlike the fiat system uh wherein a limited amount of people uh create money out of thin air.

So the Bitcoin standard explains things in proportionality to understand money and how it came about. Why there was this way of trading in the first on sense like people used to trade salt people used to trade uh cy shells people used to trade um those I’m forgetting the stones and how things start changing when a community grows um to a point that whenever money is is not easily made uh society grows you know economically so but when money is easily made it hampers on the growth of society or the community end up bringing more of unwanted things I should say not to mention it negatively but it brings more of unwanted uh things from society’s point of view it degenerates the society uh society doesn’t grow so with the bitcoin standard it simply says if you have value and that value can last over time space and time then you are able to plan accordingly.

But if you don’t have that kind of thing that will have or store your value um you’re thinking for today. You know he talks about high time preferences and low time preferences.

Uh what money was meant to be in the onsent compared to what money it is today or the currency that we’re using that generates high time value uh from people doesn’t create a low time perspective.

Um so yeah man it’s with with with the bitcoin and the way structured and the way it was designed if people would understand it that uh in a standard of bitcoin um things rather appearing to be expensive things will be more affordable because your money can last longer but with the fiat system that we are currently on now uh high time preference is that the things that appear to be going up is actually that your currency’s been debased, you know, on a regular basis. So, yeah. Um, it seems like you’re already starting some kind of uh um Bitcoin standard in your own little community.

Can you talk a bit more about what uh soetto BTC is and what you do there? Yo, sure man. Uh, so BTC is just an initiative um trying to empower the underprivileged Soto youth um through Bitcoin education and financial literacy. While on the same side, we are empowering small to medium businesses, you know, in adopting Bitcoin as a as a what do you call a a an alternative payment system, you know, so that they can have an understanding.

So we trying to have a circular economy. Uh first thing we have to educate empower the community to understand what bitcoin is, why is it here, what is intending to solve. Then introduce it as a circular that people can use it and earn it you know. So we doing that we targeting from children up until old age people even though the youth in South Africa is described as somebody from the age of 13 until 35. So we broadly do that and uh yeah we started with educating uh little ones.

We have a a center in Meadowlands Zone 9 and so whereby kids come they learn they learn through watching cartoons uh we we playing them cartoons uh the Tuttle Twins.

We’re trying to make them have an understanding about economics and money and business from the Austrian perspective this is where say namu’s strong point is this is where I say Can I use that word suck the tit of information from.

You know so we introducing them with the Tuttle Twins that explain things in more detail for them to understand. Then there are other activities that the kids do you know with those activities we reward them uh so that they can have a base of knowing what money is and they can see the Satoshi’s that they have earned.

And they analyzing it they see the the growth value then they can go to a spaza shop around us um that accept bitcoin as I’m saying we are also including small to medium businesses in accepting bitcoin so the guys who are accepting bitcoin also they are learning about bitcoin and they realize oh this money is so superior than this other one that we normally use which is the rents so when they accepting it they can see the growth value of it so yeah Um in a nutshell we trying to help communities to have an understanding about Bitcoin and circulate it around.

We also have learners in high school who are doing we started with them with a program called a tra now we are doing m premier all in all in a nutshell is that we are introducing them in the right way to bitcoin.

You know at least if they have the foundational aspect of economics in terms of what bitcoin is then they can grow become different people tomorrow.

So you uh had a few um sessions at the Maponya Mall. I remember attending one of the Trazo Academy events that you have there. How often do you have these? Um the plan was to make them once a month, but because of logistics, things don’t happen that way.

So roughly now I’ve had five cards of uh Traer. I’ve just finished another one now um on the 28th of June. So for the since the beginning of was it 21, 24 and 28 if I’m not mistaken.

Um I’ll have to check but we do three sessions in a month. Uh those sessions we take a people through the process of having an understanding about Bitcoin. I don’t know whether is it partnered or work but as an educator in South Africa uh

I partnered with Trazor Academy uh Czech Republic company uh with this has an what is this a a nonprofit because Trezor it’s a it’s a company that produces hardware wallets so they have a nonprofit on it then we partnered with them to do.

As I’m a bitcoin educator in South Africa to do workshops uh sessions or meetups whereby people come learn about bitcoin uh they we are taking them through the process the first process is what is bitcoin then the second one is how to use it effectively in your life then the third one is how when you are now having this understanding about bitcoin what kind of opportunities are there so those they happen as three sessions um

But I think I’ll be doing one probably around about September when I have enough people. Yeah.

How do you see Bitcoin growing in our part of the world? You in Soweto, I’m in Lenasia. Um what’s your vision of what’s how it’s going to grow?

Uh we are in a way as they say boots on the ground. And when people are introduced to something correctly, let me say, and they have and the one who’s introducing them is does not have uh other unfortunate intentions.

They are precisely introducing them to the value of things. So with boots on the ground, one step at a time, as they say, journey to a,000 mile begins with one step. So when we introduce them into that space then the development grows.

Uh people at times don’t have the ability to read but they have their understanding of seeing things physically when you show them that this is how bitcoin is used. So growth it’s coming it’s eminent. Um there’s no other way. uh we are now living in the digital space whereby uh people use money less as in cash or use fiat currency less as in cash.

It’s incentives are pushing them into using it digitally and now when you introduce Bitcoin and they know how to use it effectively in their life and they can see the change that it brings to them you know uh when they see the transactions happening and they start informing others.

So I’m thinking the growth it might not be super or superb at current but it’s it’s happening and within 5 years time I hope that uh the center that we have started in midlands would have grown you know and lot of people within the community and the broader aspect of so because so big uh people would have gotten information would have undergotten the understanding of what bitcoin is and probably 2030 things will be different from what it is today. Yeah, you said something very important there.

Do you still find lots of resistance from people thinking that you’re out to scam them? Hey man, you know the funny thing is uh uh yeah, I grew up in Midlands and I left middle you know um cuz we all want a a better life for ourselves and our children.

So me returning back into Meadowlands uh without having the understanding of what’s happening thinking that I still have my old friends who are staying there and things will be easy but I discovered that oh there have been scams around Meadowlands and people have been scammed through the so-called bitcoin mining now the resistance is there some of them they are still looking at me like I was telling some of my friends the other day that hey you guys look at me and like ah this guy is here to scam us and run away.

You know, there’s no way he’s going to come and tell us about a good thing when uh other people came by uh told us to join, you know, um join this uh give me this amount of money, therefore then probabilities for you to make this amount of money is going to happen.

So, they joined that. I came there uh started this year with the center.

Uh it’s about 6 months now trying to run it. Uh still resistance and my understanding is people will always try to see and figure it out what is that you’re trying to do because they’ve been banned.

Uh it’s unfortunate that uh scammers they are able to maneuver us quickly. You know I normally say they sell uh snake oil you know slippery and they are quick. So, but there is a resistance. Uh, kids are coming in with an interest. Uh, I’m marketing it on a daily basis.

Uh, I’ve got few businesses that accepting Bitcoin. I’ve got uh yeah people are beside I’m thinking in a long term because I don’t want to push it too much and say hey hey hey I’m forcing people you know uh in the next coming 6 months I hope uh my foot my ne next step will will grow this was my first step in the 6 months now my next step in this coming 6 months will grow because I have different approaches what uh are your plans for the next 6 months now that you’ve got your center established and you’ve gotten some people coming one or two merchants

What’s your plans for growth the idea for instance like say I’ve got kids who are are learning uh we are doing me premier currently so we are almost in chapter six now so they will be qualifying sooner or later at least if I group in people who have attended like for instance your your treasure academy sessions we have done the basics of Bitcoin introduction then I take him through the m premier they learn they do the 10 week course.

It’s a deep dive through then those kids I bring them into the center now they are the ones who are going to somehow be able that’s my analysis somehow cuz they’re doing it already the last session they invited some of their parents over so they able to bring along other people you know to group in other people. So the idea is that you first empower them, then you expand uh then they invite others. They work with me now.

They are volunteers currently in the in in in in the center. Uh I’ve got other kids who are coming in as young as the age of 10. As I’m saying, we are playing cartoons for them. We invite over their parents. We do sessions like your movie session time.

We invite the parents to have a seat and discuss what Bitcoin is. Um even though they are skeptical, some of the parents, let me be quite honest, they are now uh encouraging their kids to attend because their kids get rewards. So they could easily now go to the Spaza and spend. You know, one thing

I said in the Adopting Bitcoin uh session was that uh so might appear as opulence. you know it’s both squala and opulent there is poverty underneath so by assisting these kids I find out okay parents are somehow managing to utilize the sets even though they were resistant at first now through the kids they are able to take certain amount of money and go and buy so those concepts are the ones that says okay this might be a developmental channel so I’m going to use the kids as I’ve started.

Now, I’ve got other plans to invite um people, but before I pin myself into that, let me do what is called P first. That’s what I like to do. I don’t want to speak up front and don’t be able to produce. I prefer rather than let me produce something then speak about it later. Okay.

Well, it seems like you’ve produced wonderful thing. I’ve been to visit your center in Netherlands. I brought someone who was interested in learning about Bitcoin and she was quite fascinated by all of the work you’re doing and all of the kids that are learning and also um the the Coke and Chris that we bought from the store nearby. Oh yeah. Yeah. Or at KKS T shop.

Yes. Man, I I appreciate the I appreciate the fact that you you did come by to experience it on your own.

And he also is like, “Yeah, man. I did not realize that uh people from abroad can easily come here and and see me as I’m running a local spas business, you know.” So, he’s eager, he’s interested, he’s learning, he’s hardling. after said to him you can spend some few but like nah no I I I I need others to come and spend here for now I’m hodddling and learning but much appreciate for the fact that you came abai and and and experienced it uh it’s not much we are still in the process of development we’re still growing uh hopefully one day we’ll have donors who will come in and just sponsor us and say hey man I love what you’re doing but yeah yeah.

On that note I’ve put um link wallet QR code on the screen. So if there’s anyone watching this and would like to contribute some sets to uh so BTC, please uh um scan that wallet QR code and send some funds to them.

Yeah, that will be much appreciated, man. We’ve got a Geyser fund. Uh it’s a BTC. Uh it’s not difficult to to sh searches. Uh also we are in the secular bitcoin. Uh the so people who I think mostly people use X.

So so btc at x then you can have links that will direct you to our website our Geyser fund page. So you can um if god willing uh you are able to help us out so we can empower the kids.

Uh we’ve got projects online that we want to do. we have introduced uh coding uh but I’m using a a program called uh what is this program now now I’m forgetting oh code.org OG um trying to introduce kids into that space as well which is uh computer science.

Now if you bring kids into that space beside giving them only cartoons and stuff they have things to do so they are learning. Uh on my page on Geyser I explain the reasons why I want to do that.

What is that I want to achieve with that. Um yeah, so if people are interested in helping us out to grow in so to develop and have a clear footing, please uh go to Geyser Fund and and help us out. Is there a link to Geyser Fund on your website?

At the moment, I’ve got a QR code to your website that you sent me earlier. So is all the information currently my website it’s it’s it’s it’s a work in progress.

We did what is called a just a face uh hence I’m saying on X they can access uh the Geyser fund all of the links yes they are there on X just go to our profile uh on my website for now it’s just a a phase the first phase of it not much links are there but it’s on a development hopefully it will be done probably end of this month the link uh connecting the Geyser fund to the website. Yes.

Fantastic. Mister Michael Rathebe, uh before I let you go, would you mind just talking a little bit about uh um the adopting Bitcoin confidence and what’s your involvement with it? Oh, thank you, man.

Uh you were able to, how do you say it? find me in a nest and pull me out. So me and uh adopting Bitcoin, we were invited last year to come and check it out and see how it work how things work in the space.

That was my first conference. uh this year I was given an opportunity to speak by the organizers thanks to Ham and Viva uh to speak about what is that uh we are doing based on the cohorts of education. So currently now I’m working and the circular economy space I think it will be something that is coming next year on the adopting Bitcoin uh uh platform.

So I am just an educator in the Bitcoin space in South Africa and so I’m interested in explaining things about what is that we do. Uh yeah, hopefully. But uh you know, adopting Bitcoin really really really has given me a spread uh ematras to bump on and an opportunity that um no words can can explain it.

It’s literally hard for me to say things, but I appreciate everything that they have done uh in terms of getting us through this process because if it wasn’t for them and the assistance that we have had uh exploring and venturing into the space of Bitcoin, one would have felt that he’s in his own cocoon is alone.

But with going to the conference, it opened my eyes because I got to see a lot of good people, you know, no scams, no noise, just signal, you know, about Bitcoin and the value of it. And it changes you in a way that it makes you focus really on what is at most important about society.

If we can eradicate this system of very few people controlling and and dictating and directing uh and give everything on a decentralized platform to people so that they can decide for themselves.

I think life will be better you know rather than most of us spending time complaining. So adopting Bitcoin has opened my eyes connected me to people that I never thought I will be able to see. uh my African friends in the diaspora. My brothers and sisters are doing wonderful things. Uh we connected in at adopting Bitcoin. The first conference for me which spoke only about Bitcoin, nothing else. No crypto, no nonsense.

You know, it gives signal. It says this is this the direction we ought to go. And with that, you get to see people at hard at work, you know, trying to change our brothers and sisters lives in Africa, globally, the south. So yeah, it has impacted me.

It gives me that uh oomph to say you know what even if tomorrow it’s not easy but uh I’m trying my level best you know I’m going to go through it and educate my brothers and sisters my community empower them as much as possible with the little information that I have that Bitcoin is here to solve the most important problem. take away money from the state control and give it back to the people as it was meant to be.

You didn’t only bring yourself and your lovely wife, but you brought along a whole bunch of kids also. Can you speak a bit about them and what their experiences was like?

Oh. Uh yeah, man. Uh thanks to to adopting Bitcoin again. Um it wasn’t me precisely, it was them because these kids they attended the tra academy.

They interested in learning about Bitcoin and an offer was there to say uh anyone that you would consider bringing along and to me was the first people were the kids you know cuz I believe that the exposure they received uh it has changed their lives and it will change their lives forever.

uh the experience they got at adopting Bitcoin has led them to them forcing me to do me premier because I’m doing me premier they’ve invited other learners as well remember they were five.

Now I’ve got 20 learners at school uh grade 11s you can think about it now focusing on Bitcoin and others the other day we were doing treasure they decided to come back to come into the classes as well so you can see there’s a drive, a desire from these kids to know something about money which is different from the school curriculum.

They do EMS but it’s different. They do business studies. This one is different. So them coming in as I’m saying they are volunteers in the space.

They assisting and they bringing their their friends and they are telling their experience about Bitcoin. you know, whenever they go to purchase. Last time I saw them at pick and pay, uh, and they were telling this lady at the te, but it’s their conversation with the lady cuz they were showing her that they were buying using Bitcoin, using the blink account.

So, it was like this lady was puzzled and I’m like, “Wow, oh guys, you normally come and do spend here and explain things to adults as way, you know.” They’re like, “No, we do.” So their experience at that part has changed their parents’ lives as well because some of them are now interested in buying and storing um some sets. It’s a private thing.

So normally every month they will say, “Hey, we like to to make a trade. We’d like to buy so we can store.” Um yeah, I don’t know. Uh maybe one day you’ll speak to one of them. and they will explain it to you in a way that they uh the experience has changed their lives. Yeah. Yeah.

I’d be very lucky to have one of them on my show. Mr. Michael, thank you so much for being on here as well. It’s taken a while for us to to get this together, but I’m really happy that you could make time to be on here. No, man. Much appreciated.

Hey, I’m I’m scared of this. Uh, I don’t know what to say, but I much appreciate your patience with me and I appreciate you open a door hence I said you were able to find me and pull me out and I appreciate everything that you do and may God grant you blessings uh beyond what you’re currently doing and expand uh the program that you’re doing because you are a person with a good heart your intentions are very grateful or great not and I’m grateful to have met you my brother thank you so much sir let’s bring Bitcoin to everyone Okay.

Michael Rathebe from SowetoBTC